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 Post subject: Reds!
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 2:29 pm 
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Topsider's clever cartoon:
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From Left to Right: J. Press Reds, Bill's Khakis Reds, Murray's Toggery Reds. Only the Murray's Reds fade to Salmon!
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More of the Salmon Reds from Murray's:

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Last edited by Billax on Thu May 24, 2018 6:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Reds!
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 6:02 pm 
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Love that Jacket, Bill!

Polo.

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Murray's.

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This is a pair I found at a thrift store, new with tags, that I ended up selling online.

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 Post subject: Re: Reds!
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 10:56 am 
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I have 3 pair of reds (and way too many GTH trousers in general)

2 are vintage sailcloth reds in the classic shade, found together at Goodwill, so old that the brand tags fell off

They look like this:
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The third pair are brighter and ligher DAKS for some shop in Bermuda, also a thrift pickup, 100% linen and no belt loops

They look like this:
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My general rule with reds is everything else super simple and basic (there can only be one lead singer) I guess this puts me more in line with Tops interpretation of reds than Bill's

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 Post subject: Re: Reds!
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 1:55 pm 
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leisureclass wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 10:56 am
My general rule with reds is everything else super simple and basic (there can only be one lead singer) I guess this puts me more in line with Tops interpretation of reds than Bill's
Probably so, lc, but about seventy-five percent of the time I wear Reds, I wear a solid color sport coat or blazer with my Reds.

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"... fashion wears out more apparel than the man."
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 Post subject: Re: Reds!
PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 7:58 pm 
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Off to Granddaughter's Ballet recital! Murray's Toggery Nantucket Reds with Allen Edmonds White Bucks with Red soles and J. Press Madras sport coat.

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"... fashion wears out more apparel than the man."
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 Post subject: Re: Reds!
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:43 am 
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Here's my pair of reds
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And here they are in action in downtown Orlando on a gloomy day
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 Post subject: Re: Reds!
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 1:45 pm 
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I tried a pair of the Murray's Toggery reds but found the cut to be too baggy for me.

Then I took the advice of Ensiferous and bought a pair of reds from Nobby Clothes Shop. I like 'em much better. They fade like the Murray's, too.


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 Post subject: Re: Reds!
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:39 pm 
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Wealthy New Englanders Sure Love These Pink Pants
The story of Nantucket Reds.
By Melissa Banigan May 26, 2017, 9:32am EDT


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You know that color that’s not quite red, not quite pink, but more of a dusty, washed-out salmon? Tucked away in drawers through the gray winter months, Nantucket Reds are yanked out as soon as spring arrives by men all along the East Coast. Tommy Hilfiger wears them, hedge fund men yank them on before heading out on their yachts for the weekend, and even some hipsters squeeze into a version that comes dangerously close to being considered skinny jeans. The pants have become as ubiquitous as your father’s cargo pants, yet they make their wearers stand out like cooked lobsters.

Despite their name, the inspiration for these intensely colored slacks came from the other side of the Atlantic in Brittany, France. In the 1800s, Breton fishermen tanned cotton canvas with tannins from tree bark to prevent the sails of their boats from mildewing. The tanning process colored the sailcloth a rich sunset red, which faded as it weathered in the saltwater and sun from mandarin red to a light, blushing cantaloupe color. Leftover cloth was fashioned into trousers and vareuses worn by the fishermen.

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The Coast of Breton, c1907-1915. Artist: Leon Hubert. Photo: Print Collector/Getty Images
While it’s easy to romanticize Breton fishermen tearing away in their matching red-sailed boats, it’s worth remembering that the color was nothing more than a lovely byproduct of a completely utilitarian process. Tanbark sails made their way to the East Coast of the United States in the mid-1800s, although they didn’t make quite the same splash amid fishing communities as they had in Brittany. The cloth, however, was adopted for clothing by people living in small working-class communities on Martha’s Vineyard, Nantucket, Block Island, and Cape Cod, and all along the coast.

During the 19th century and at the turn of the 20th century, red and pink — a diminutive of red — were considered “strong” masculine colors, while blue and white were thought to be softer and more feminine. Pink, in particular, become a color that signified class.

In F. Scott Fitzgerald’s The Great Gatsby, protagonist Jay Gatsby, a millionaire with a shadowed working-class past, was shamed for wearing a pink suit by Tom Buchanan, an autocrat born into wealth. Tom has been “making a small investigation of [Gatsby’s] past,” he tells a friend, Jordan. Asked whether he found if “he was an Oxford man,” Tom replies, “An Oxford man! Like hell he is! He wears a pink suit.”

Red and pink — a diminutive of red — were considered “strong” masculine colors.
Jordan pushes the subject: “Nevertheless he’s an Oxford man.”

“Oxford, New Mexico,” Tom replies scornfully, “or something like that.”

Although pink wasn’t codified along gender lines as it is today, Gatsby’s choice of color signified to Tom that his adversary wasn’t born into and educated within the upper echelons of blue-blooded society on Long Island’s North Shore in the 1920s. By questioning the suit, Tom strips Gatsby of his rosy-hued American dream of mansions and class and Ivy League clubs, leaving him naked, alone, and utterly apish.

If pink was associated with the working class (many of whom wore brown, black, or cream), then how did it come to be adopted by the uber-wealthy living along the East Coast? The answer, of course, comes down to brilliant marketing and the flagrant appropriation and romanticizing of utilitarian working-class style.

If pink was associated with the working class, then how did it come to be adopted by the uber-wealthy living along the East Coast?
During World War II, American women worked jobs in factories and shipyards that had previously been occupied by men. This was an era of Rosie the Riveter and a government-approved masculinization of women. After the war ended, however, men reassumed manufacturing positions and, despite the fact that many women remained in the workforce, the notion of the “homemaker” became synonymous with the idealized woman. With this new feminization of women, pink also became domesticated.

The G.I. Bill led to massive postwar economic growth, and with it came a new gendered brand of marketing. Pink became a “girly” color that was coopted not only by clothing manufacturers, but by makers of shampoo, soaps, and a variety of other products. It was within this environment that Nantucket Red — a color strikingly close to pink — started to be marketed to wealthy men. While this might seem contrary to the gendered marketing of the time, it’s worth considering how the color was framed.

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Terry Waller, left, of Murray's Toggery Shop, gives Pam Waller some help selecting Nantucket red trousers as a birthday present for her husband, Will. Photo: Boston Globe/Getty Images
Before Murray’s Toggery Shop was purchased by Philip Murray in 1945, the store was known for supplying locals on Nantucket with essential outdoor clothing such as waders and sturdy footwear. In the 1950s, Murray’s son, Philip C. Murray, took over the business, and he introduced Nantucket Reds in the 1960s.

Much in the way that Irish and Scottish tweed was appropriated by British upperclassmen as sportswear, a version of “Breton Red” pants were donned by wealthy vacationers visiting places such as the French Riviera, the Cinque Terre, Monte Carlo, and Costa del Sol. Inspired by the popularity of the pant as a style for the rich and famous, and aware that the colorful cotton canvas was readily available in the United States, Philip C. Murray knew his pants would be a hit.

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Doug Ellsworth at the Camp Sankaty Head Caddie Camp, 2002. Photo: Boston Globe/Getty Images
Although pink had been established in American culture as feminine, Nantucket Red’s inherent message of sturdy outdoorsmen clothing appealed to a type of wealthy man who — despite working in boardrooms and offices during the week — wanted to be seen as belonging to the club of “real men” (even if their hands showed no sign of being accustomed to hard labor). Blush, flamingo, lipstick, rouge, coral, and rose: those were colors for women. Nantucket Red, however, even when it was deemed pink, couldn’t escape its rugged past as a color worn by scallop boat riggers and fishermen. Now, however, the people wearing it assumed the wheel of a very different sort of boat: a yacht.

By the 1980s, Nantucket Reds were associated with wealth, privilege, and whiteness, and they became a cornerstone of preppy summer style after appearing in The Official Preppy Handbook. Today, the warm salmon color appears on the decks of sailing boats and yachts, and the pant is partnered with both seersucker jackets and the classic navy jacket at summer garden weddings. There’s even a Nantucket Red soiree. Knock-offs can be purchased at J.Crew and other midrange outlets, making them accessible to an even wider audience. The pants ushered in a way for the wealthy to casually display their class, yet the rugged “everyman” outdoorsman associations made them appeal to men (and many women) across economic lines. There’s no doubt that Jay Gatsby — in his quest to embody the American dream — would approve, although he might also feel that he wore pink just a few decades too soon.

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"... fashion wears out more apparel than the man."
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 Post subject: Re: Reds!
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:47 pm 
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Topsider, thanks for your earlier compliment on my Seersucker Gingham sport coat. It's from J. Press some years ago when my youngest was being recruited to Yale as a Lacrosse player.

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"... fashion wears out more apparel than the man."
Shakespeare


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 Post subject: Re: Reds!
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:56 pm 
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Billax wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:47 pm
Topsider, thanks for your earlier compliment on my Seersucker Gingham sport coat. It's from J. Press some years ago when my youngest was being recruited to Yale as a Lacrosse player.
I've been looking for one like that for years! There have been some near-misses over the years (size, condition, etc.) If I ever find one in my size, I hope I wear it as well as you do, and I would definitely wear it with my Nantucket Reds! :)

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 Post subject: Re: Reds!
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:50 am 
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Nantucket Reds: On the Water.

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Just as Madras bleeds, the original Nantucket Reds fade. I have Reds from J. Press, Bill's Khakis, Murray's Toggery, and the Nobby Clothes shop. I like 'em all, but the color I like best (funny to write this as a colorblind guy) is the color sold by Murray's.

In a related post on the topic, Gamma wrote that he liked the fit of the Nobby Reds best. Everyone has their own preferences in taper, length and snugness, or lack thereof. Happily, I have a seamstress for a wife and my wife knows how to use this weapon.

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She designed her own wedding gown, bought and cut the fabrics, and they fit perfectly and dazzled everyone at our wedding. Unrelatedly, the 55th Anniversary of that event will take place two months and one week from now!

But, back on topic, in forty minutes of her work, I have EXACTLY the length, taper, and fit I want. I am a lucky guy!

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 Post subject: Re: Reds!
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:59 am 
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Now we know Bill's secret weapon to achieving a perfect fit on his trousers!


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 Post subject: Re: Reds!
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 1:52 pm 
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gamma68 wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:59 am
Now we know Bill's secret weapon to achieving a perfect fit on his trousers!
His ace in the hole! Well now that we know you're secret, does the Classic Beauty take orders? :)

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 Post subject: Re: Reds!
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 3:10 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Reds!
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:18 pm 
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Topsider wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:56 pm
Billax wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:47 pm
Topsider, thanks for your earlier compliment on my Seersucker Gingham sport coat. It's from J. Press some years ago when my youngest was being recruited to Yale as a Lacrosse player.
I've been looking for one like that for years! There have been some near-misses over the years (size, condition, etc.) If I ever find one in my size, I hope I wear it as well as you do, and I would definitely wear it with my Nantucket Reds! :)
Update: I just scored a gingham sportcoat on eBay (from Orvis). I hope it's half as good looking as yours, Billax!

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"Wearing a bow tie is a way of broadcasting an aggressive lack of concern for what other people think." - Warren St. John


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