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 Post subject: an Authentic Document of 60s Ivy Style
PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 9:58 am 
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFtQr_W3opM

Softly rolling collars, skinny lapels and ties, amazing paisley button downs, jackets with natural shoulders, and the the Dead! Not to mention the fact that even one of the guys on drums is sporting a great collar.

A lot of people talk about this era as the beginning of the end, but it still looks like a really interesting time to me.

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 Post subject: Re: an Authentic Document of 60s Ivy Style
PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 1:17 pm 
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Interesting video.

I see some TNSIL elements in the film, but to me it looks like the NY-take on the hippie era had pretty much taken off.

Seems to me I read somewhere (maybe on Billax's blog?) that the Ivy era pretty much petered out around 1966 or so. Some overlap is to be expected, since not everyone put flowers in their hair come 1967-beyond.

With all due respect to fans of the Grateful Dead, I never quite understood the strong interest by the Heavy Tweed Jacket blogger, especially since the Dead are readily identified as a "hippie" band. Ivy Style and the Hippie Movement seem to be polar opposites to me.

I guess the answer is chacun à son goût.


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 Post subject: Re: an Authentic Document of 60s Ivy Style
PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 5:42 pm 
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I saw kids at preparatory school whose interest in the Grateful Dead was serious, and there was the rare individual who could be called fanatical - one you could identify by the aroma. Dead emblems drawn on book covers. The eyes. They were a prep subculture. People say some Deadheads were cult-like, but those where the people who were not in school and were thus able follow them around the country (hippies) and collect cassette tapes of concerts like they were precious gems.

Preparatory school was more than college preparation, it was in many ways college imitation, including emulating the partying. The Dead did lots of major college concerts (Princeton) and some of the preparatory school kids saw that as just another reason to like them as a counter-cultural indulgence and transgression, a form of harmless social disobedience tied to music that they really liked. Not quite the jazz/college analog of the 50s and 60s, but close? As went the Ivy universities, so went the feeder preparatory schools.

Just my observation, which may be totally wrong, but some kids had to mentally find a temporary escape from the pressure of the rigorous prep school academics (which looking back, were challenging for the age group) and did the Dead thing. Personally, I went hiking & climbing.

I was not into the Dead at all, but I found the music less objectionable than the "whole scene" that centered around them.


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 Post subject: Re: an Authentic Document of 60s Ivy Style
PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 6:20 pm 
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Thanks for sharing your observations, Ensiferous. I didn't realize the Dead had such a presence on campuses during the 1960s.


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 Post subject: Re: an Authentic Document of 60s Ivy Style
PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 6:55 pm 
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gamma68 wrote:
Thanks for sharing your observations, Ensiferous. I didn't realize the Dead had such a presence on campuses during the 1960s.
gamma, they did, but I can only attest to the 70s. 8)


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 Post subject: Re: an Authentic Document of 60s Ivy Style
PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 6:58 pm 
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Ensiferous wrote:
gamma68 wrote:
Thanks for sharing your observations, Ensiferous. I didn't realize the Dead had such a presence on campuses during the 1960s.
gamma, they did, but I can only attest to the 70s. 8)
If you remember the '60s, you weren't really there anyway. :)


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 Post subject: Re: an Authentic Document of 60s Ivy Style
PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 7:17 pm 
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My preparatory school years were 70s, college 80s. I could be wrong, but I remember the Deadheads being considered sort of tired-out in the early 80s. I don't know about the band.


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 Post subject: Re: an Authentic Document of 60s Ivy Style
PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 7:54 am 
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gamma68 wrote:
With all due respect to fans of the Grateful Dead, I never quite understood the strong interest by the Heavy Tweed Jacket blogger, especially since the Dead are readily identified as a "hippie" band. Ivy Style and the Hippie Movement seem to be polar opposites to me.

I guess the answer is chacun à son goût.
Based on reading this I think that you would be surprised at my playlists. Not that it is is Dead heavy (not a fan for the most part), but it is far from what you expect out if you think that I listen to "Ivy" music. Also, some of the most radical thinkers that I know dress the most conservatively.

There are many many reasons that people dress in this manner.

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Last edited by OCBD on Wed Oct 07, 2015 7:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: an Authentic Document of 60s Ivy Style
PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 7:55 am 
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Ensiferous wrote:
I was not into the Dead at all, but I found the music less objectionable than the "whole scene" that centered around them.
Interesting Ensiferous. I feel the exact opposite :P .

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 Post subject: Re: an Authentic Document of 60s Ivy Style
PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 9:54 am 
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OCBD wrote:
Based on reading this I think that you would be surprised at my playlists. Not that it is is Dead heavy (not a fan for the most part), but it is far from what you expect out if you think that I listen to "Ivy" music. Also, some of the most radical thinkers that I know dress the most conservatively.

There are many many reasons that people dress in this manner.
OCBD absolutely nails it here folks, could not agree more.

As for the Dead, I spent a long part of my youth absolutely hating them (they were somehow simultaneously my parents nostalgia music for their glory days and the popular thing in High School and College with kids my age), now that I'm older I've come around to some of their more self contained stuff.

If you've never watched Freaks and Geeks do yourself a favor and seek it out, the last episode is especially relevant to this conversation.

as for the HTJ thing, I always understood that as him most likely being a product of the era.

Here are a few of his images documenting the shaggy prep/trad thing:
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

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 Post subject: Re: an Authentic Document of 60s Ivy Style
PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 10:28 am 
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leisureclass wrote:

If you've never watched Freaks and Geeks do yourself a favor and seek it out, the last episode is especially relevant to this conversation.
I've seen the entire series, including the last episode, and know exactly what you're referring to. Good point.

The great discussion in this thread has made me reflect a bit. My own musical tastes are pretty eclectic. Although I listen almost exclusively to classical on the radio today, my library contains loads of 50s-60s jazz plus The Beatles, The Doors, Pink Floyd, Cream, Hendrix, Led Zeppelin, et al.

When I was in high school, a friend called me an "armchair hippie" (due to my musical tastes) and I dressed pretty conservatively at that time.


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 Post subject: Re: an Authentic Document of 60s Ivy Style
PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 5:00 pm 
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Ensiferous wrote:
I saw kids at preparatory school whose interest in the Grateful Dead was serious, and there was the rare individual who could be called fanatical - one you could identify by the aroma. Dead emblems drawn on book covers. The eyes. They were a prep subculture. People say some Deadheads were cult-like, but those where the people who were not in school and were thus able follow them around the country (hippies) and collect cassette tapes of concerts like they were precious gems.

Preparatory school was more than college preparation, it was in many ways college imitation, including emulating the partying. The Dead did lots of major college concerts (Princeton) and some of the preparatory school kids saw that as just another reason to like them as a counter-cultural indulgence and transgression, a form of harmless social disobedience tied to music that they really liked. Not quite the jazz/college analog of the 50s and 60s, but close? As went the Ivy universities, so went the feeder preparatory schools.

Just my observation, which may be totally wrong, but some kids had to mentally find a temporary escape from the pressure of the rigorous prep school academics (which looking back, were challenging for the age group) and did the Dead thing. Personally, I went hiking & climbing.

I was not into the Dead at all, but I found the music less objectionable than the "whole scene" that centered around them.
I don't know if your analysis is right or wrong, Ensiferous, but the facts are definitely as you state them -- there were plenty of Deadheads on prep school and Ivy campuses in the 1970s. I spent a semester abroad in London in 1979 and one of my roommates was a Choate grad, summered on Block Island, and spent the whole semester traveling to Dead concerts in the major cities. I don't think there is any inconsistency there. We were all young. The image of preppies or Ivy grads as pipe-smoking Mantovani-listening fuddy-duddies has always been a canard. Later in the early '80s it was the Talking Heads who were alligator shirts. Then onto Vampire Weekend and most recently bands like Walk the Moon which was started by a bunch of Kenyon grads.


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 Post subject: Re: an Authentic Document of 60s Ivy Style
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 8:45 am 
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Denison University, 1980-84. Deadheads everywhere. An entire frat full of them (Phi Gamma Delta, or Fiji). And Deadheads dressed pretty much the same as everyone else, i.e. "preppy."

The Grateful Dead, when they were good, were very good.

And when they were bad, which was often, they were mind-bogglingly bad.


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