Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 62 posts ]  Go to page 1 2 3 4 5 Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Handguns (no, not the "traddest handgun").
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 6:38 pm 
Offline
Platinum Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2008 5:53 pm
Posts: 3060
Location: Virginia
Went to the range for the first time in, oh...30 years? I had fired some of my relatives' handguns when I was a teenager, but had zero experience with modern semi-automatics. Borrowed a Glock 17 and 19, a S&W M&P, and SIG Sauer P226 from the range. Liked the Glock 19 the best.

I'm considering purchasing a handgun in the near future, and intend to take some additional training that will let me apply for a concealed carry permit in my home state. I figure it'll be good to have even if I don't carry a gun very often. The course also goes over all of the relevant laws, etc. so I can stay out of trouble.

Any tips or suggestions from the group? I'm definitely leaning towards 9mm due to the relative ease of shooting and inexpensive ammo.

In case anyone is wondering, I wore a navy blue BB polo (un-tucked), PRL khaki shorts, and LLB camp mocs. As a nod to the tactical folks, I wore my Casio G-Shock instead of a Timex on grosgrain. ;)

Glock 19 at 7 yards. First target. The others looked a little better.
Image

_________________
"Wearing a bow tie is a way of broadcasting an aggressive lack of concern for what other people think." - Warren St. John


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Handguns (no, not the "traddest handgun").
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 10:42 pm 
Offline
$
$
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 2:25 pm
Posts: 636
Location: Old Man Kelsey\'s Woods
Recently when I was doing my full-time gig with the Government, I worked side by side with some Pros who had sort of aged out of the door kicking business. They held strong opinions that your go-to piece should have a caliber starting with a number 4. A particularly good buddy who previously coached the pistol team at a Service Academy likes Glocks, but had a tuned 1911 as his go-to. He was talking about a "Baby Glock" (in .40 I think) as a welcome-home gift to himself.

But I think your point about 9mm ammo cost is a huge counterpoint to the above. Whatever the firearm, the one you practice with will the most effective. Bulk 9mm is an economical alternative.

Me, I have a S&W small frame 9mm. But I don't practice; No excuse. Regardless, I think maybe I'll will trade up to a Colt Commander 1911 one day. BTW, my welcome home gift to myself was not a handgun, but a semi-auto M-4 clone (a Colt). I never liked black guns before my deployment, but had loads of fun at the range during my work-up.

Scott


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Handguns (no, not the "traddest handgun").
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 11:53 pm 
Offline
$
$
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2011 5:41 am
Posts: 363
Location: New Mexico
I am partial to 1911s, as they are the platform on which all my competition handguns are based. Consequently, I have "several" government models in calibers ranging from .45 ACP to 9mm. Oh, and it is the tradliest. :roll: For carry, though, I have 3 pistols - an STI LS in .40 S&W (small, very slim 1911 variant), a KelTec P11 in 9mm (small 10 rd double-stack double action only), and a KelTec P3AT in .380 ACP (tiny single stack DAO). Of the 3, the STI is by far the "best" gun, but I tend to carry the .380 in a pocket holster the most, especially in the summer when I wear short all the time. The P11 is used second most, in a tuckable IWB holster. The STI mostly sits in the safe, because I don't have a good concealable holster for it, and I hardly ever wear a suitable cover garment. I usually wear a sport coat or suit to work, but seldom feel like wearing a jacket that I CAN'T take off.

Never warmed up to the Glocks because the grip angle is so different from that of the 1911s. The Springfield XDs is a carry gun with ergonomics similar to the 1911.

Really, though, the best gun is the one you have with you. Most indoor ranges rent handguns for you to test drive, so play around until you find one you really like. That's the one you will feel comfortable with and will carry.

Ammo cost is a consideration, but I wouldn't base your decision on it. There are (relatively) cheap practice ammos available for all calibers from .45 ACP down.

Oh yeah, one last point of which I am sure you are aware, be careful when crossing state lines, some jursdictions in your general vicinity are very restrictive on civilian carry.


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Handguns (no, not the "traddest handgun").
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 2:54 pm 
Offline
Gold Member
Gold Member

Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2008 7:16 pm
Posts: 732
I live in the PRNJ so I fear being hassled when I go hunting with a shotgun. A carry permit is a pipe dream. That said, when I used to have a carry permit in another state I carried a .38 S&W on occasion. Since carry permits are widespread these days, the gun manufacturers cater to the carry crowd and put out good small autos, which are better for easy carry than the old .38 revolvers since they are flatter. I suggest that if you really want something to carry, get something very small, perhaps a 380 or small 9mm. Otherwise it will stay in the house. I know that SIG, Ruger, and Keltec make some nice carry guns. If you really need to carry a 45 then perhaps you should change your travel plans! Folks who need to carry large guns generally have specialized clothing and belts to deal with it. I do have a SIG 45 at the house though.


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Handguns (no, not the "traddest handgun").
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 5:30 pm 
Offline
Platinum Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2008 5:53 pm
Posts: 3060
Location: Virginia
Speas wrote:
I suggest that if you really want something to carry, get something very small, perhaps a 380 or small 9mm. Otherwise it will stay in the house.
I've handled a few. I'm not enamored with the .380 cal. "mouse guns." I think 9mm is about as small a caliber as I'd like to go for defense. Considering the Glock 26 for carry at some point, or I may just go ahead and get it first. I don't see myself having a huge gun collection. Just one or two with a purpose.

I should add that while I like Glocks so far, I'm not so sure I'd be as comfortable carrying one as I would a gun with some sort of external safety apart from the trigger safety (e.g., a grip safety, at least), like the Springfield XDM.

_________________
"Wearing a bow tie is a way of broadcasting an aggressive lack of concern for what other people think." - Warren St. John


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Handguns (no, not the "traddest handgun").
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 9:35 pm 
Offline
$
$
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2011 5:41 am
Posts: 363
Location: New Mexico
For sure the grip safety on the XD adds a "belt and suspenders" assurance, but the Glocks and others without are fine for carry. Just make sure that the trigger is covered in the holster (I would never carry without a holster, even though I have friends that are completely comfortable with a belt clip on a KelTec), and that you keep your finger out of the trigger when holstering. Almost all Glock "accidental discharges" happen because of a finger on the trigger when holstering. Because the striker is set when the action is cycled, they have a pretty light trigger pull for a carry gun. The trigger safety is effective when the gun is dropped, for example, but not when your finger is in the trigger guard. If you practice, practice, practice, good gun safety (on target, on trigger, off target, off trigger), the Glock will work just fine. Again, the gun you are comfortable with is the one you will carry. Don't rush your decision, especially if you don't want to end up with a large collection!

If you do pick a pistol with an external safety, make sure you practice enough that de-activating the safety is second nature. You don't want to have to think about it when the chips are down.


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Handguns (no, not the "traddest handgun").
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 11:18 pm 
Offline
$
$

Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2011 3:00 am
Posts: 1021
words of wisdom - I've seen the results of an accidental dischargs: not pretty.


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Handguns (no, not the "traddest handgun").
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 3:24 pm 
Offline
Member
Member

Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:25 am
Posts: 184
Location: Alabama
I occasionally carry a Springfield XD .40 subcompact. I am really interested in the Ruger .380 LCP for concealed carry if needed, it's an ultra compact pistol. The XD has a trigger safety as well as a grip safety. Not sure about the LCP.


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Handguns (no, not the "traddest handgun").
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 10:19 pm 
Offline
$
$
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2011 5:41 am
Posts: 363
Location: New Mexico
The LCP has no external safety. Rather, it relies on a long heavy trigger pull as a passive safety. The hammer is not cocked until the trigger is pulled, so an external safety can be considered "belt & suspenders" (which may not be a bad thing, depending on your view). IMO, such a pistol is safe to carry, provided the trigger is completely covered by the holster. This is in contrast to a single action pistol, like the 1911, where an external safety (or two) is absolutely necessary, because the hammer is fully cocked when the pistol is carried. The XD is , I believe, somewhere in between, where the striker is partially cocked when the pistol is in the ready position

The LCP and the KelTec P-3AT are very similar in design, the major differences being an slide stop and better fit and finish on the LCP. This comes at a corresponidingly ligher price.


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Handguns (no, not the "traddest handgun").
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 11:15 pm 
Offline
Platinum Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 10, 2012 8:00 pm
Posts: 1817
Location: Connecticut
Topsider wrote:
Liked the Glock 19 the best.

I'm considering purchasing a handgun in the near future, and intend to take some additional training that will let me apply for a concealed carry permit in my home state. I figure it'll be good to have even if I don't carry a gun very often. The course also goes over all of the relevant laws, etc. so I can stay out of trouble.
Topsider,

Congrats on you newly rekindled shooting appreciation.

If you have the time, take at the very least a 3 day course with a good instructor after having taken your state mandated permit class, which is really just a launching point. (Let me know if you would like some instructor info.) You have safety, legal, marksmanship, tactical, administrative (handling), and lastly equipment selection related subjects of study to dive into.
Some recommended reading by authorities with whom I have trained:
The Farnam Method of Defensive Handgunning, Second Edition by John S. Farnam
Fighting Smarter by Tom Givens
In the Gravest Extreme : The Role of the Firearm in Personal Protection by Massad Ayoob
More Tactical Reality by Louis Awerbuck

The personal defense handgun must be functionally reliable, have a trigger conducive to good marksmanship, no sharp edges, an operating system that you find physiologically compatible, a caliber which balances effectiveness and controllability, a corrosion resitant finish, and a good set of sights. The 9mm Glock has all these, with only the sights being debatable, but they are upgradable, and I always do.

The Glock especially demands constant trigger finger discipline and a rigid kydex or leather holster for range & carry. That trigger finger needs to stay completely outside of the trigger guard and along the frame unless the target and beyond have been identified, and the decision to fire has been made.

G26 for carry and G17 for home & range are very good kit. Or the G19 as an all-rounder can't be beat. Many like the SW M&P as well. I love the 1911, but have consigned them mostly to the range, where they have many attributes. But the Glock is my primary defensive sidearm.


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Handguns (no, not the "traddest handgun").
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 10:53 pm 
Offline
$
$
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2011 5:41 am
Posts: 363
Location: New Mexico
Ensiferous wrote:
Topsider,

Congrats on you newly rekindled shooting appreciation.

If you have the time, take at the very least a 3 day course with a good instructor after having taken your state mandated permit class, which is really just a launching point. (Let me know if you would like some instructor info.) You have safety, legal, marksmanship, tactical, administrative (handling), and lastly equipment selection related subjects of study to dive into.
Some recommended reading by authorities with whom I have trained:
The Farnam Method of Defensive Handgunning, Second Edition by John S. Farnam
Fighting Smarter by Tom Givens
In the Gravest Extreme : The Role of the Firearm in Personal Protection by Massad Ayoob
More Tactical Reality by Louis Awerbuck

The personal defense handgun must be functionally reliable, have a trigger conducive to good marksmanship, no sharp edges, an operating system that you find physiologically compatible, a caliber which balances effectiveness and controllability, a corrosion resitant finish, and a good set of sights. The 9mm Glock has all these, with only the sights being debatable, but they are upgradable, and I always do.

The Glock especially demands constant trigger finger discipline and a rigid kydex or leather holster for range & carry. That trigger finger needs to stay completely outside of the trigger guard and along the frame unless the target and beyond have been identified, and the decision to fire has been made.

G26 for carry and G17 for home & range are very good kit. Or the G19 as an all-rounder can't be beat. Many like the SW M&P as well. I love the 1911, but have consigned them mostly to the range, where they have many attributes. But the Glock is my primary defensive sidearm.
I agree wholeheartedly with all Ensiferous' points above, especially the continuing need for training (and practice). Carrying a handgun carries great responsibility.


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Handguns (no, not the "traddest handgun").
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:11 pm 
Offline
Platinum Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2008 5:53 pm
Posts: 3060
Location: Virginia
Thanks for all of the suggestions. :)

_________________
"Wearing a bow tie is a way of broadcasting an aggressive lack of concern for what other people think." - Warren St. John


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Handguns (no, not the "traddest handgun").
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 7:43 pm 
Offline
Platinum Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2008 5:53 pm
Posts: 3060
Location: Virginia
Update: I ended up getting the Glock 19, and have a 6-hour concealed carry course this coming weekend. Not sure if the 19 will end up being my primary carry gun or not, as I may need something a bit smaller. The Glock 26 is a possibility, as is a 380. Any opinions on the Kahr P380 as opposed to the Ruger LCP? I need some trigger time with both.

_________________
"Wearing a bow tie is a way of broadcasting an aggressive lack of concern for what other people think." - Warren St. John


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Handguns (no, not the "traddest handgun").
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 11:18 pm 
Offline
$
$
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2011 5:41 am
Posts: 363
Location: New Mexico
I'm sure you'll be pleased with your choice of the Glock 19 (coming form a dyed in the wool 1911 guy). The Kahr 380 is very nice, also. Much more a precision machine than the Ruger LCP, but at a substantially higher price. Practice, Practice, Practice with the Glock and you'll probably stick with it in the end.

I tend to be a collector of equipment (skis, bikes, guns, etc.). For me, there is no bad reason to buy a new pistol (or rifle, or shotgun), but don't start second-guessing your decision yet. You picked a fine weapon.


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Handguns (no, not the "traddest handgun").
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 6:30 am 
Offline
Platinum Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2008 5:53 pm
Posts: 3060
Location: Virginia
I've taken it to the range a few times, and have several hundred rounds through it already. Had to put a Hogue grip on it to keep it from slipping around, but that's helped a lot. Overall, I'm very pleased with it.

_________________
"Wearing a bow tie is a way of broadcasting an aggressive lack of concern for what other people think." - Warren St. John


Top
   
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 62 posts ]  Go to page 1 2 3 4 5 Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron